Marcon Forums

I'm looking for the thread I was told about asking for input on Ohayocon's 9000-10000 person attendance and how can Marcon ramp up to numbers like that. I.e. "What is Ohayocon doing right" and how can we (as Marcon) learn from them and replicate some of that success.

I attended my first Ohayocon this year. Here are the things I noticed that made it well worthwhile:

1) Dealers room.. they had dealers in the main floor, up the stairs, even out on the area outside the room proper. They were an assortment of merchants that I didn't typically see at Marcon, obviously there was some heavy anime presence, but there were clothiers, D20 girls, multiple sources for toys/merchandise/artists with prints... It was a refreshing, and packed dealers room. I felt like I had a real chance to shop for something out of the ordinary. Increasing the number/variety/types of merchants would be a good suggestion, imho, as most consumers crave novelty these days, and the perception is that the Marcon Dealer's room is not very dynamic, and tends to have very little change in the types of merchandise available from year to year.

2) Panels: Much like Dragon*con, the panels that were well attended had people who were authoritative sources.. people who either worked on the shows, in the industry, or were otherwise credentialed people. Not panels with a few fanboys(girls) bemoaning why their personal fantasy isn't being taken as canon, and it wasn't a rehash of 4 years of internet rumor and speculation. Practical authority, first hand knowledge, and on topics people want to know about.

3) The dance: It was a rave, it had tunes and DJ's people wanted to hear, there were glowy things to buy/use, and they kept it organized. They had so many people waiting to get in, that they had to flush the room about every hour to let a new batch in, and the place was packed well past 2am.

4) Celebrity/Media guests. Johnathon Coulton... Know your target audience. He did two performances, both were standing room only, and people actually came to the convention just to see him. He's a geek performer that hits a lot of genres. People paid for a full admission, just to hear him play. I'm sure they more than made up any performance fees just from the people who came expressly to see him.

4a) Media guests. Marcon is *NOTORIOUS* for not getting media guests, or getting one, or two, and generally, B tier, or lower. If that's all we can afford? Fine, but when fan groups are offering to spend their own money to bring in celebrities, (not just authors, but actors and other performers/producers), Marcon should freaking well take advantage of the free budget boost. You'll pretty much guarantee that the club members will buy badges and promote the hell out of the appearance, on top of anything Marcon might do. Kevin Sorbo was nice, but if we could land more media guests from multiple types of media, you can pretty much bet we'll get more people. Starbase Indy actually got 2 celebs, only one had a guaranteed minimum fee, and they picked up a bonus freebie of a main actor from a 1st season Sci-Fi series on ABC, for the price of a few free passes for his friends.... and people came, and paid for memberships, just to see them, and hear them speak at panels, which were generally full rooms.

5) Themes. I have been attending Marcon for YEARS.. and getting theme adherance is almost nonexistant at times. The british invasion went well... with STEAMPUNK.. (not just alternative history... that will dillute the buzz on STEAMPUNK).. you can bet you'll get an upsurge in attendance. Windycon 2009 was blown off it's hinges with the influx of Steampunk costumes and panels.. and they were well attended. The Masquerade for Windycon had so many entries of a caliber that would walk away with Best in Show at any other masquerade, it was unreal. Steampunk is HOT right now, and the venues to show off the outfits/costumes/genre are not completely saturated yet, so when people have a chance to go to an event that is costume and theme friendly, they come, in many cases, from several states away. If you want attendance, give the people what they want, not what you're willing to compromise or grudgingly give up to them.

6) Fan tables. I want to take a moment to acknowledge the hard work that has been put in to update/increase/improve/and revitalize the fan/hall table displays. 2009 Marcon was great, and there were still tables to be used. Keep expanding that. THe hall tables generated many, many positive comments and traffic for the convention. It's a resource that should continue to be developed.

7) Static Content. There are no surprises with Marcon. I know where everything is, I know exactly what to expect, regardless of the theme, I know the who, the what, and the where. I have very little buzz or excitement toward Marcon because it has become for the most part static, and unchanging. The effort to get even the smallest changes made is a near herculean effort, and most times, it's met with apathetic disinterest. The encumbent concom is so busy guarding their traditional ways that it's slowly, but surely killing off the convention. Change is damn near impossible to get accomplished, and people know it, so if there's something they don't like about Marcon, most are just resigned to having to deal with it. If the things they are so adamant to NOT change are so good, why is membership down? When is the last time Marcon had 2000 paid attendees? When is the last time we had over 3000 total attendance? I know for a fact that several long time attendees are actually skipping this year, because there are other conventions that will cater to their newer interests and they're going to take on the additional expense and travel now just to find something they hope will be more fun. That's a wakeup call. Marcon has a loyal base, very loyal, and you're losing it to other venues.

Younger Interests. Right now? I don't see much in the way of content that appeals to the under 20, or even under 18 set. The children's programming is mostly, from what I can tell, content to allow the older members, with kids, to be able to fob the kids off, and keep them occupied while the parents are off doing their usual Marcon things. The average age of a Marcon attendee is getting older.. and it needs to get younger.. if you want this convention to survive, you have to do things that will interest the younger people, to get them invested in the convention, and turn them into the loyal membership that is the lifeblood of a convention.

That is not to say that we must pitch out the old in favor of the new. There are plenty of things that Marcon has that are done well, and should be kept. There's also nothing to say we can't add things that will be of additional interest to the existing membership base. I'm nearly 40 years old, but my interests never stay the same. I learn about different things, and sometimes leave other interests behind as they no longer hold my attention. Marcon needs to try to attract additional members, regardless of age. A dwindling attendance, year after year, is a sure sign that something is wrong, and while change is painful, and it gets all too easy to point fingers or go on a witchhunt, let's face it.. Marcon is over 40 years old.... you don't get to be that long lived of a convention by doing everything wrong, but, then again, the world has radically changed in the last 40 years... we should be open to adding and changing things in order to keep the convention healthy, and growing, not static and withering. If Marcon was really healthy, would people be asking what it is that Ohayocon is doing right, implying that Marcon is doing some things wrong. Ohayocon uses the same space, and has literally 5 times the attendance (based on a 2000 person Marcon attendance). 5 times the people in the same space... that's another wakeup call. Those are all potential people that Marcon is missing out on. Personally, I know people coming from Chicago, and Florida, among other places, that make a point of attending Ohayocon. How widespread is Marcon's draw? Is it in state only? Midwest only? National? Where are our people coming from and where are we losing them to?


What did I see at Ohayocon? It's an anime convention, yet I saw Sci-Fi, Steampunk, Anime, literary, video game, and super hero costumes, and they were ALL welcomed and enthusiasticly encouraged to strut their stuff. The only restrictions were the masquerade proper which restricted entries to east asian related characters and themes. I saw events for younger people, like the rave. I saw merchants carrying hot items that were popular and fashionable that they could use right there at the convention. I saw a variety of themes, all getting support and encouragement, not just the 'core' of the convention. What is Ohayocon doing right? By and large, it seems to me that they're hosting an active, dynamic, and growing convetion.

-CJ

Very well put CJ being staff this year at Ohayocon and being and attendee and panelist at Marcon for years has shown me something. One thing that Ohayocon has that Marcon is lacking right now is love for the fans. Ohayocon did everything possible to try to make it an enjoyable experience from start to finish. They listened to what people wanted and delivered and all on a limited budget. They brought people in to run the con who are fans and love what they do and have a genuine love for the culture.

I believe Marcon over the last few years has just turned into one big party, I like a good room party but it should not be the main draw of THIS convention. People should come for the amazing programming and good time and have the parties be a bonus. Focusing costuming awards instead of "best shot"or "best room party". Bring in talent that people actually want to see like bands, actors, writers and inventors.

I want to see Marcon grow strong not just for myself but for all the other fans out there that attend.

-Tony

I have to agree with the sentiments stated above for the most part. Costuming is a big part of the fan experience now days, and anime cons, for the most part, have their pulse on the type of crowd that MARcon used to be. Infusing MARcon with a bunch of anime stuff might be good for overall attendance, but some of the regular, old-timers might hate that sort of stuff which is often seen as "kiddie."

I think MARcon went in the right direction last year with the British Invasion theme, and the Horror theme this year. Last year seemded to be a good year for MARcon, and perhaps it will be a better year this coming. The themes have a lot to do with what will draw people in, but also GREAT word-of-mouth advertising. Last year was good energy, and MARCON has to keep up the adrenaline from last year through until this year. This will be very, VERY important.

I whole-heartedly agree that room parties should be a by-product of the convention, not the focus of it. Even with our group being a past Best Room Party winner, I've got to say that less attention to room parties is key. In the past decade many people came to MARcon for the parties, not the con itself. That's a shame. Focus, focus, FOCUS on the themes and the convention itself, not the fun by-products that go along with a fandom con.

~O

WOW!

CJ, this is exactly what I was looking for when I posted that question. (It was posted to the Yahoo group, rather than here, because--honestly--I never noticed this resource before. Go figure.)

Amazing feedback. I'm going to direct every member of the Con Comm I can buttonhole over here to read this.

There's a refreshing wind of change blowing through the Con Comm this year, and people are ready and willing to listen. There are some changes that can't be made overnight, and others that may not be made evAR, but it takes information to bring about any change at all. You've provided a big chunk of it, and MarCon will be the better for it.

Anyone else? Keep it coming, folks. Now that I know this thread is here, I will be monitoring it, and making sure your suggestions get to where they need to go.

Thank you!

Mandy
Fan Liaison

Some sobering thoughts to say the least, and it isn't the first time I've heard many of them. I had forgotten all about these forums until Mandy posted about them on the concom list. Thanks, btw!

I've been working with Marcon, coordinating the Media panels, for several years now. Is it long enough to consider me "old guard"? Doesn't really matter. Truth be told, every now & then I can myself be stuck into one mode of thinking or habit. Generally, I tend to focus on the Media Track and not much else because it's what I know best. Plus, I'm not the most veteran of con goers, having only been to a few like Millenicon, 2-Be-Continued and Dragon Con. So even if I tend to do be somewhat rote, I do listen and seek out others' opinions. That's part of how the Media Track has grown over the years - checking out what else is going on and being done.

I agree that last year there seemed to be an extra sort of energy around the convention. One area in particular - relocation of gaming to the top level outside the Dealers Room. There was interaction, access, interest... it worked and worked well. That's a good example of change... even if it is a relatively small one. There was also a noticeable uptick in hall costumes. That could be due to a variety of things. Resurrection of hall costume awards, a continued presence of Iron Costumer... who knows?

As to the other ideas, they're mostly outside my realm of expertise to answer. I do know that an idea has been floated about groups sponsoring guests. That's a most intriguing idea, and one that had been bandied about a long time back. It addresses specific interests, aids in fund-raising, and more. There goes the area I know least about - finances. With Marcon being a 501-c3 I have no idea what is required or restricted due to that status and to SOLAE's governorship. Even so, from my limited perspective .... I have to say the idea is VERY interesting and I hope it can be implemented.

After all of that, I feel I have to say that success at other conventions may not translate to every other. Nobody is saying that what worked there must therefore be brought to Marcon. Only that there are new ideas and new things to investigate. That's a good thing to have, so long as we all recognize that each convention is liable to have its own identity and doesn't have to be like others. But being flexible and willing to undertake new adventures will only help Marcon grow and even thrive.

-Lee-

There's good and bad with trying to compare Marcon with Ohayocon. I think the short version is that if Marcon could pull just 1% new attendees from the 10,000 young people that come to Ohayocon then that would help numbers and get the next generation going into liking Marcon forever.

With more attendees comes more $. More $ means better media guests. Better media guests means more attendees. More attendees means more vendors want to fill the Dealers room. It's a vicious circle.

More Anime might be where it's at to get attendance up. Ohayocon is a very young crowd, and they come in fanatical droves. Nobody wants to see Marcon be completely changed and dominated by Anime, but if the future con-goers love everything anime, then maybe a slight shift to having a little or a lot more is in order.

Heck, a free box of pockey might get an extra 50 Marcon registrations that wouldn't have before.

You make good sense, Steve. MarCon ISN'T Ohayocon, and I don't think anyone wants it to be that big. Just bigger. Ohayocon seems to draw a very diverse crowd, even though it's focus is anime; Maybe it's time to take another--closer--look at what expanding anime under the MarCon umbrella might do. Anime guests, perhaps?

An improved anime presence most likely would have at least some kind of impact. My three kids have become animephiles over the past few years. They've even hooked me on "Fullmetal Alchemist", "Haruhi" to name a couple. Shoot, they might even be willing to pitch in on a few panels.

I'll even spring for a case of pockey!

MARcon shouldn't become an anime con, that is for sure, but perhaps one year focus on anime as the theme, or just increase the amount of anime for the next few years. How do you increase anime? Well I'm not sure but advertising at Ohayocon and having a few media GOH would help a great deal.

~O

Hmm, with MARCon being a 501c3, there may be lots of opportunities here for donations from companies that would like to see their products promoted.

I've contacted Mehron as a potential sponsor for my zombie makeup panel, and if I had known MARCon was 501c3, I could have told them that, in the interest that their contribution would be tax deductible...

Is it too late to write them back? I think we could give them promotional credit as well as a tax deduction, but I'm not the final authority on that. Email Shell Franklin from the www.marcon.org contact us page, he's handling acquisitions from national companies this year. Every little bit helps.

What I find interesting about the talks about expanding the anime presence at MarCon is that MarCon used to have a strong anime presence in years past. I've seen a noticable drop-off in anime panels in the last five years, and it would be nice to see a stronger anime track available at MarCon again (but I'm not sure I'd want to subject people to an anime-themed MarCon, even though I am an anime/manga fan). I'm not going to bemoan the fact that we no longer have an anime viewing room, but knowing that there will be some horror-themed anime shown is a step in the right direction (and I'm willing to make a concession on the room knowing that some anime will be shown every year).

I think two other things of note are the change in the gaming area location and the dance. I applaud the move of gaming to the third floor. It allowed people who would normally never see the gaming to see and participate in the games, and let's be honest here, the open-air atmosphere was...refreshing. The location led to great exposure for gaming, and it got rid of what has been for awhile an open, mostly empty space outside of the dealers room.

I'm also a person who attends the dance every year, and while I'm not the biggest fan of themed dances (or raves, for that matter; I'd fear a rave would push out the older dancers for the younger ones), the most important detail is to have a dj who can really capture the pulse of the 'Con through the setlist. We've had good years and bad years with the dance (and I can remember when the dance was so popular that it was held on both Friday and Saturday night), but I think the music is key. I would never say to get rid of the themes (if it makes people happy and get them out on the dance floor, so much the better!), but the music is really going to be key to a successful dance. If the dj can get people to dance and stay out on the floor, it will be a success.

I'll try again. So far, no response, and I've talked with them before about samples.

On the topic of the dance. We went there last year and the scene was incredibly lame. I think that if there was some colored lighting in there, it would make all the difference. There were a lot of folks sitting at tables and just a few people on the stage. A darker room with better lighting would do wonders. Since MARCON is a non-profit, these kinds of lights can be bought at wholesale retailers.

The biggest problem continues to be communication. Emails are virtually useless. It's a month before the con and I still have friends waiting to hear back about things they've started asking about months ago. With email, phones, Facebook, Twitter, and the forums, it should NOT be so hard to get an answer about something. I realize that everyone is a volunteer, but frankly, if someone can't answer an email in a timely manner, let alone for months on end, I don't think they should be trying to run a convention. This is what most of the complaints I've heard for the past five years have been about, and many of the fan groups I'm involved in are either done trying to do anything for Marcon or are on the verge of quitting because of it.

Marcon was my first of any kind of con though less than two years later I went to the first Ohayocon (and my first anime con). Since then I've been Ohayocon twice more (2002 and 2004) and this year I just went to Tekkoshocon in Pittsburgh. And while I consider myself a pretty big anime fan (I attend a weekly anime club and was officer in it for two years!), I've never felt the anime conventions have the same magic Marcon has - even when I was closer to the target age range. If anything, Marcon makes me want to attend other sci-fi conventions because... there's just something else there.

When I try to encourage people to come to Marcon, I tell them all the variety it has - science-fiction, fantasy, horror, filk, costuming, anime, gaming (huge variety there alone), room parties, etc. Something for practically everyone. And I have known people who came for / only did one niche activity (such as anime or gaming) they could find at a different convention focused on that - even here at the Hyatt!

I've been shocked at how big anime cons have gotten, especially when Marcon seems down in attendance. Does anime have a bigger fan base than science-fiction and fantasy? Many anime fans are also at least interested in science-fiction or fantasy, since those genres are represented heavily in anime, of course. But those fans aren't coming to Marcon...

I'm now 30 but I have many younger friends I still try to get to Marcon; but I don't want to see Marcon get swarmed by the youth. I'd love to see more here but... one thing that dissuades me from anime cons is flocks of what seems to be easily distractable and flighty people (no offense to them and not everyone is that way). However, we can use more people and we can use the next generation (pun not intended) to keep Marcon alive.

I loved when there was a big anime panel track and an anime viewing room. There's enough sci-fi, fantasy, horror anime to still meet what Marcon is and not just be anime. I loved the anime option in addition to the TV and movie viewing rooms - I loved having the choices. I'm guessing less anime panels because we don't have anyone to run a track anymore? Anything we could do to encourage people from Ohayocon to run tracks at Marcon? Might be able to trade by offering Marcon tracks at Ohayocon - specialize in the sci-fi / fantasy anime?

Looking through Ohayocon pictures I see a good number of non-anime costumes. Do we know if any of them come to Marcon as well? Why would they pick Ohayocon over Marcon if not doing anime? I've always supported costumes so we should encourage that more here. It's already a big deal... but anime cons are getting interest we're not. Is it age again? Is it the costumes or plethora of choices to model after? One thing I love of Marcon's costumes is how often (myself included) you see original outfits. Encourage the hall costume contest; encourage costume panels. Maybe even try to set-up "series meet-ups" where everyone dressed as someone from a particular series, movie, book, etc, meets to pose for group pictures. I know anime cons often have this, often set-up via the message board. It's happened a few times at Marcon but I think that's often a group (like Doctor Who Columbus) and people outside the group don't always hear about it. It seems to generate interest and encourage socializing amongst fans - I've heard of friendships coming from this and people excited about attending cons just to be with the group again. Of course, I've also seen so many costumes even at a small anime con it's hard for any one costume to stand out and get the appreciate most of us want after such effort into making it. Sometimes stopping to be taken in a picture keeps a person there for a long time and crowds a hall as so many want snaps...

If we're looking at getting guests... Might I suggest inviting some web presence? Sci-fi / fantasy web comic artists? Science bloggers? Non industry people who have made really good video series online (I know we've seen a few at Marcon over the years)? Maybe ask some special effects artists, make-up artists, others from the industry who can talk shop in ways people don't expect? I doubt many of these would be expensive as big-list celebs. I do like the above idea of getting actors from newer series who haven't really hit the comic circuit yet.

More contests? Marcon had a fiction writing contest for a few years in the past decade. I think it became open only to children; not sure what happened since. Maybe open it up again with different age brackets? Maybe a film contest too? Marcon staff could choose the winner or all entries voted on by Marcon attendees? Advertise this with previews or web posters ahead of time? My alumna matter has a "local film makers' night" and most of these artists grant permission to screen their films for free just for the exposure and most are on DVD. Just up here in Cleveland we see a lot of sci-fi, fantasy, and horror films, often shorts. Maybe Marcon could try that? I'm reminded of AMV contests at anime cons that often get people working hard to enter. I know there are plenty of fan videos using clips of live-action shows but that might hit some copyright issues that anime often avoids.

And I do think Marcon is willing to try new things. Two years ago the Dyskworld Players held a full theatrical performance. This encouraged me to bring my troupe, The Confused Greenies, to perform a sci-fi parody stage play last year. Dyskworld is back for year three and we're back for year two. Half a decade ago I saw a sketch comedy (can't recall how much was improv) show on Friday night (the year when the third floor ballroom wasn't the dealers room for some reason) and I missed not seeing it again. Doing shows requires a large group of people willing to partake in a big project for Marcon and this helps generate interest amongst themselves, their friends, and any fans.

I do like the idea of promoting a theme more. I've seen the themes but they don't always have a visible presence. I think Marcon should always be willing to move beyond the theme for content, having some theme-specific tracks and events is great too. Maybe factor that into contests and the costuming? I'd love a steampunk theme and there has been a huge spike recently. Good for the costuming mindset and alternative history fans. If we don't want an anime theme, maybe an animation theme? Plenty of western animation in addition to Asian that fits the Marcon genres.

Anyway, I think I've written too much (I can be wordy) so I'll send this off for now. I do like there is discussion to improve Marcon! I love this con and wish it to continue.